The Apache pocket pistol has an almost mythical reputation amongst those of us who are interested in antique firearms. This is almost certainly due to the fact that the weapon looks really cool.
(Click on the pics for a slightly larger image.)
These guns seemed to be fairly popular during their production run, which was from about 1870 until 1900 or so. All of the surviving examples are valuable antiques, and the lowest price I have ever seen for an Apache is about $4000.00 USD.
The basic design would be pretty effective if it was of hefty enough size, but that simply wasn't the case. This thing is pretty small, measuring when all folded up a little more than 1.5 inches across (4 centimeters). You had better have little bitty fingers or else you won't be able to use the weapon as a knuckle duster.
That also means the bayonet was only about 1.5 inches long. You would have to be pretty desperate to go stabby since it probably would just piss off whoever got stuck. Better than nothing, I suppose.
There is some confusion as to why this weapon is called the Apache. Some people assert that it gained the name after a rough and tumble street gang in Paris which called itself the Apaches, and the weapon gained it's name when these tough and dangerous characters all started to carry them. I find that really hard to swallow since just about all the Apache pistols which have survived were gold plated at one time, with engravings of little flowers.
What kind of street gang wouldn't be terribly embarrassed to have these as their main weapon of terror? The same street gang whose only criminal acts are mugging little girls for their My Little Pony collections. Looks to me like the name was just a marketing ploy, picked in an attempt to add some badly needed manliness.
So why wasn't the first gun all shiny and gold? Because the plating wore off from being carried in someone's pocket for years. That means someone actually considered this to be a serious self defense weapon, and he hauled it around with him in case he needed to kick some butt.
The firearm component of the weapon uses what is called the pinfire method of ignition. This is where a little stub of metal (the pin) sticks out of the back of the cartridge. The hammer strikes the pin to set off the primer. This means that the hammer doesn't strike the back of the cartridge like on modern firearms, but instead comes down on top of the cylinder edge.
That is a picture of the Apache's cylinder. See that little metal rod sitting next to it? That is the axle that holds the cylinder in place. You had to remove the entire cylinder to reload, and the axle was used to poke out the spent cartridges.
This gun looks like a revolver that is missing it's barrel, but looks can be deceiving. It actually is a very short-barreled pepperbox. The bullet diameter is 7mm, which puts it at about .27 caliber. I haven't been able to find any ballistic data on this type of gun, but it probably wasn't too impressive. After all, pinfire cartridges couldn't be loaded to very high pressures so muzzle velocities must have been pretty paltry.
This particular weapon was designed and patented by a Belgian gunsmith named Dolne, who lived in the city of Liege. I suppose he was of Polish extraction since there is a city of the same name in Poland.
Most gun enthusiasts think this is a pretty neato weapon, but only if they don't realize how small and underpowered they really were. I can't help but wonder what this tiny little gun would have been like if it was scaled up and chambered for, say, the .38 Special cartridge. I bet it would have been pretty impressive as a do-anything weapon system then! Since it was restricted to a 7mm pinfire, though, I think it was probably bought and carried by city dwellers who only had to worry about the occasional mugging by a wheezing drug addict.
Comments (31)
I remember seeing some of these as a kid, and I thought the blade was probably just for anchoring the gun in the target, so you wouldn't miss. Otherwise, how you hit anything with it?
Posted by AlanDP | November 11, 2006 7:52 AM
Posted on November 11, 2006 07:52
The slightly serrated edge on the dagger blade is certainly neat looking. Whether it would make it a more effective weapon is a different question.
Posted by Steven Den Beste | November 11, 2006 11:03 AM
Posted on November 11, 2006 11:03
The name "Apache" makes complete sense in the context of where and when this weapon was sold and manufactured. It was sold in France and Belgium at the turn of the 20th century.
In France around that time, an "Apache" did not refer to a gang but to a type of person; roughly what we would call a hoodlum today. The Apache however had some kind of an uniform: elephant-leg pants, cap ("casquette"), long sideburns ("rouflaquettes" they called it at the time). Lots of these types were pimps.
The name "Apache" was still in use well into the 20th Century. See the story of the Bonnot Gang ("la bande à Bonnot circa 1912): they are routinely refered to as "Apaches" by the press of the time.
The weapon of choice at the time in that "milieu" (in France to this day this word also refers to the underworld in general) was the knife and that's how quarrels were settled. It's the famous bande à Bonnot refered to above that introduced heavy firepower and use of motor vehicles into the equation.
Posted by Frenchy | November 11, 2006 1:53 PM
Posted on November 11, 2006 13:53
Is there anything that locks the blade into position when it's extended? If it's just out there on a swivel screw, it'd be more of a hazard to the person carrying it than to anyone he was trying to threaten.
Posted by Steven Den Beste | November 11, 2006 8:57 PM
Posted on November 11, 2006 20:57
Is there anything that locks the blade into position when it's extended? If it's just out there on a swivel screw, it'd be more of a hazard to the person carrying it than to anyone he was trying to threaten.
I was thinking the very same thing, Steven.
Unfortunately, I don't know the answer to that question. The remaining Apache pistols are terribly expensive antique collector items, and are so rare that I have never even seen one in the flesh. (If you will excuse the metaphor.) If there is a catch or mechanism of some kind to lock the blade into place, it isn't readily visible from the pictures I have seen.
James
Posted by James R. Rummel | November 11, 2006 9:40 PM
Posted on November 11, 2006 21:40
I want one - no, two, one for me & one for my sis. It's adorable!
Posted by Marie | November 13, 2006 1:52 PM
Posted on November 13, 2006 13:52
I'm late here, just noticed that the carnival is up.
As to the lack of power in the Apache, remember that you are thinking in terms of today. Drop back to the pinfire revolver days and consider the state of medicine. Almost any puncture wound to the body was eventually fatal, no antibiotics, remember?
James Butler Hickock (Wild Bill) did his killing with a Colt's Navy Revolver, shooting a 71 grain lead ball at about 700 FPS, think a .32 ACP, ballistically.
The deterrant power of a gun was much larger than it is today because a body shot was nearly always fatal.
Posted by Peter | December 5, 2006 10:43 AM
Posted on December 5, 2006 10:43
An interesting article, thanks.
I've wondered about these weapons since seeing mention of them in a coffee table book years ago, as it was not clear on the size or performance of them.
Have you any idea how much they sell for these days?
Posted by Milo | December 18, 2006 6:14 AM
Posted on December 18, 2006 06:14
Pretty!!!
Posted by Tanya | December 26, 2006 4:27 PM
Posted on December 26, 2006 16:27
These must be rare, I don't see a listing in my Blue Book of Gun Values which is around 2000 pages of gun value info. It's the first gun I have looked for that was not it the book. This weapon would be nice to have in a display case on the wall, but, it's probably worth over $10,000 in good condition and would be better in a safe. Not to worry, I will probably never have one. :)
Posted by Jim McCall | January 6, 2007 10:36 AM
Posted on January 6, 2007 10:36
This weapon would be nice to have in a display case on the wall, but, it's probably worth over $10,000 in good condition and would be better in a safe.
Actually, they go for about 1/2 that.
Send me an Email and I'll provide you with a few links to auction houses where you can make a bid.
James
Posted by James R. Rummel | January 6, 2007 9:39 PM
Posted on January 6, 2007 21:39
James, you just got a link from Ace of Spades.
Posted by Les Jones | January 8, 2007 11:17 AM
Posted on January 8, 2007 11:17
People say the gun is underpowered but it would be a formidible wepon. If you saw that serrated blade sticking out of your shoulder, i don't think you'd be saying "Huh call that a blade!" and if someone points it 5inches from your head ready to fire, do you think that knowing that it isn't as powerfull as a some other guns going to save you?
Posted by John Allen | January 11, 2007 6:09 AM
Posted on January 11, 2007 06:09
I wouldn't mind having one of these things if not just for the brass knuckles themselves!
Posted by Ryan | March 26, 2007 12:04 PM
Posted on March 26, 2007 12:04
The whole idea behind this weapon, as a previous comment has mentioned, is that the weapon is literally stuck into the person before firing. The purpose of the blade is to hold the weapon in the person (you would be amazed at the suction a human body has on a penetrated blade even of less than 2 inches). Firing the weapon at such close range would have a devestating effect and given its small size you wouldn't even see it coming. In short an evil weapon designed for no other purpose than incapacitating and "gutting" its victim.
I suppose the weapon would be stabbed towards the lower torso or low/mid abdomen region, god help you if you were stabbed from behind towards your kidneys. *shudders*
Posted by MIlander | March 27, 2007 1:35 PM
Posted on March 27, 2007 13:35
WOW! this looks like a very brutal weapon and judging by everyones comments it is an "evil" weapon to bad you don't see many of these in westerns and in other movies like on a bad guy or something. Very cool GUN/KNIFE/BRASS KNUCKLES
Posted by Nate | April 16, 2007 8:12 PM
Posted on April 16, 2007 20:12
As a response to the not apperant locking mechenism for the knife, it appaears (in the 2 pics w/ the knife open) that there is a small tab that slides forward (spring loaded probably) and to close it by sliding it back (there is a groove that could possibly be the "rail"). I only saw it when i zoomed in on the pic but it was bad quality.
Posted by Chris O'Connor | April 18, 2007 9:31 PM
Posted on April 18, 2007 21:31
how expensive do this little pistols run and are they street legal or are they just for show?
Posted by Justin Sellards | May 22, 2007 12:24 PM
Posted on May 22, 2007 12:24
where can i get 1!
Posted by Ray | May 31, 2007 1:31 PM
Posted on May 31, 2007 13:31
Nice little weapon, the blade I don't think would do any damage as it would probably only just penetrate the abdominal wall. The idea of using it to keep the weapon firm before firing is quite cool, the bullet penetrating I think would probably drop anyone.
Cheers
Posted by Steve | August 5, 2007 9:12 AM
Posted on August 5, 2007 09:12
Sometimes maybe it feels bether not to kill your opponent ,but just hurt him seriously.So small calibers makes sence in a way.
Posted by werty | August 9, 2007 6:00 PM
Posted on August 9, 2007 18:00
It is not called an Apache gun, that is just the englisch bastardization.
There was an anti-government gang in France called ABC, an acronym that I can't now remember. Sorry. If the letters are said in French it sounds like Abaessey. The gang was made up of mostly students and younger people, who were often searched during their demonstrations and daily lives, with good reason too.
The group carried lightning attacks on police officers and other officials with easily concealed, close range weapons.
When a member was caught, their unique weapon was confiscated and taken as a trophy, and were gilded and polished up for presentation.
Posted by Dmirty | August 29, 2007 7:33 PM
Posted on August 29, 2007 19:33
This site shows much clearer and bigger pictures if any of you are interested...
http://www.littlegun.be/ma_collection/a%20be%20apache%20gb.htm
Posted by Sam Johnson | October 28, 2007 2:59 PM
Posted on October 28, 2007 14:59
it is really amazing
Posted by rahul | November 12, 2007 10:46 AM
Posted on November 12, 2007 10:46
were do you get these little bastards
Posted by james | November 26, 2007 11:26 AM
Posted on November 26, 2007 11:26
Good news: there is one for sale at James H. Cohen & Sons in New Orleans, 1-800-535-1853. Bad news: the listed price is $5750...too rich for my blood...if anyone knows of one for sale at a realistic price I would love to find out about it
Posted by Ashley | December 26, 2007 10:52 PM
Posted on December 26, 2007 22:52
i concord with the comment that shows the extremely high potential of this little killer.it remembers me a weapon carried by a character in the FINAL FANTASY saga.but a bit smaller...i would be glad in having one of them. i also suppose that an habile blacksmith or a tallented collectionist would be able to construct one of them.(in that case we would be able to change some of its weaknesses, like the little size of the knucler and to have a personal best-suited apache)
i love the design of this weapon, so practical for close combat, even if you dont penetrate your adversary abdomen you would be able to blow its face with this one.
(if some one knows a blacksmith, call me...)
Posted by Ignigo | January 4, 2008 10:53 AM
Posted on January 4, 2008 10:53
koooooooool
Posted by Anonymous | January 16, 2008 10:38 AM
Posted on January 16, 2008 10:38
From what I've been able to find, the Apache street gangs in turn-of-the-20th Paris (so named because they were thought to be as bloodthirsty as "real" native American Apaches) were a danger to the emerging bourgeois middle-class because the members of that middle-class had been societally conditioned to try to avoid physical confrontations—fisticuffs were gauche, simply not done. Apaches were also a danger because they carried those folding pistols that, while laughable when faced with a real weapon, nonetheless trumped the "nothing" that was all most law-abiding citizens were allowed to carry.
As a direct result of this inequality, the instant that jujutsu first appeared on the scene in France, it took off among those endangered middle-classers like a house afire.
By the way, here's a different Apache pistol design, photographed at the J.M. Davis museum in Claremore, Oklahoma.
Posted by Robotech_Master | March 12, 2008 7:54 PM
Posted on March 12, 2008 19:54
"Is there anything that locks the blade into position when it's extended? If it's just out there on a swivel screw, it'd be more of a hazard to the person carrying it than to anyone he was trying to threaten."
It looks like there is a pin in front of the trigger that could be a release, but I could be wrong and it may just be to align the brass knuckles.
Posted by Anonymous | March 30, 2008 11:27 AM
Posted on March 30, 2008 11:27
Great information here. I came upon this site while looking for information on the Apache, because I have recently acquired one. It is marked with the name Dolne Brevete and has a low serial number. The other neat thing is that it's in it's original case with three pinfire bullets. I am interested in selling this piece, and am taking offers. I can send detailed pictures if anybody is interested.
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July 31, 2008 10:31 AM
Posted on July 31, 2008 10:31